With some in Israel preparing to build a third Jewish Temple, and news of the possible sacrifice of a red heifer, many are asking: how much is about to change? And when the third Temple is built, will it require the Ark of the Covenant to be found? Can it even be found? Shoreshim Ministries founder Bill Cloud joins Glenn to explain it all. Plus, he reviews 4 places where the Ark is rumored to be and how likely each of those locations are to house the Ark: Is it in Ethiopia? Mt. Nebo? Outside the Old City? Or is it hidden in tunnels under the Temple Mount? Plus, Bill and Glenn discuss whether anything would have to happen to the Dome of the Rock for the Temple to be rebuilt.
TranscriptBelow is a rush transcript that may contain errors
GLENN: Okay. So does the dome of the rock have to be destroyed for the third temple?
BILL: That's what most people think when they consider, you know, a building of the temple. Although, not everybody thinks that that is necessary.
And because there is some dispute about where the temple actually sat, where the Holy of Holies was.
There's a lot of religious -- where the dome of the rock is.
There was a gentleman, excuse me, back in the late '80s, early '90s.
A professor at the University. He felt that the holy of holies was actually a little north of the dome of the rock, at a place called the dome of the tablets of the spirits.
So most people believe that the dome of the rock has to go. There are some who believe that it's possible, that the temple could have -- it's not just north.
And technically speaking, could it be on the same platform. There's even a passage in revelation chapter seven. Where John is told to measure the temple of God. To leave the court outside. Leave that out.
The Gentiles. So some people have thought, well, maybe that is suggesting that there is going to be a temple, alongside either the dome of the rock.
Or the mosque. And, you know, I don't know. I find that problematic for a lot of reasons.
GLENN: Yeah. Yeah. Kind of like the burning of the red heifer right there, you know, in Arab territory.
It might be a problem with that.
BILL: That's right.
GLENN: So, you know, the Ark of the Covenant is where they kept the Ten Commandments. And I know it was real. I know it existed. I never, ever thought, we're going to find that.
We're going to find that? Is that important for the rebuilding of the temple?
BILL: Well, technically speaking. The second temple.
This is the one that was built after the Babylonian captivity. And then Herod expanded it. That, we did not have the Ark of the Covenant in it. And it was still considered the house of God.
So there's historical precedent for rebuilding the temple and not having the ark. However, there's prophecies that talk about, how the glory of the latter house is going to be greater than the first one. Referring to Solomon, which is referring to the Ark of the Covenant.
So technically, they could rebuild it without the ark.
However, there have been those in Israel, since the reunification of Jerusalem, who not only do they want to build a temple of the Temple Mount, but they want to find the Ark of the Covenant.
And there are a lot of traditions, as to what happened to the Ark of the Covenant.
Some say, that it went to Ethiopia, which I don't believe.
Some people say, that Jeremiah hid it in Mount Nebo which is Jordan. Some people believe it's outside the old city, buried. And then there are quite a number of people. And particularly, people close to the idea of rebuilding the temple.
Who believe it's buried somewhere, and underneath the Temple Mount.
That's not really a big secret honestly. It's all oar the internet.
GLENN: No. But I find, if you know something about the Temple Mount.
We'll come back to this in just a second.
Because there's somebody a labyrinth of temples underneath, et cetera, et cetera. But I can't see how those have not been, you know, exhaustively gone through by those of the Muslim religion.
We'll give more of those in just a second. Stand by.
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(OUT AT 10:29 AM)
GLENN: Welcome to the Glenn Beck Program.
We're glad you're here.
We're talking to bill cloud, as passover comes up on Monday.
We're talking about Biblical prophecies. Because there's a lot of stuff happening in the world right now.
Where a lot of people are going, you know. I think eye read about this someplace before.
But. No man knows when.
I mean, it could be a thousand years from now.
But it will happen at some point.
And we need to be aware. And I want to make this really clear. And, Bill, I think you'll back me up on this.
The Lord was not. He didn't look at Scriptures and was like, man. It doesn't have a snappy ending.
I want part two of this. So let me leave them on a scary cliffhanger.
The Book of Revelation was written, not to scare us.
But to say, look, all of these things will come to pass.
And it's almost. I think it's a blessing, that he says, and, you know, at this point, the seven-year clock starts to -- to tick off.
And he's telling us, this -- I'm not -- don't be shocked by these things.
They're going to be bad. And they're going to seem like they're never-ending.
But they're not.
And I'm telling you these things, so you have faith. And can make it through those times. Is that how you read it?
BILL: Absolutely. When you go to the Book of Revelation, by the way. And you look at the heading.
It says, the revelation of Jesus Christ. It does not say the revelation of the Antichrist or the tribulation or bold judgments and vile judges. It's about the Messiah. In fact, it says, in that book, that the essence of prophecy is the testimony of the messiah. The spirit of prophecy is about the messiah.
So everything about all this bad stuff, ultimately, it will point us to the messiah. Because all the bad stuff is just the Satan, and those who practice wickedness. Trying to stop the messiah from returning and sitting upon his throne in Jerusalem. To rule and reign.
So, yeah, it doesn't end on a bad note. It ends on what mankind, those who love and holiness had been longing for, since Adam was exiled from the garden.
A return, to be with God and God be in our midst. So that's the greatest thing that we could ever hope for. And all these things that we would see, is pointing us to that. So it's an excellent observation on your part.
It tells us these things. In fact, when he sat down on the Mount of Olives with his disciples. This is a -- by the way, Mount of Olives is where they will burn that red heifer when they do it. But anyway, he sits down on the Mount of Olives. And he says, tell me all these things, as you said, so you know this will happen.
But don't be dismayed. Don't fall in despair. I'm telling you these things, so that you will not be deceived.
I'm telling you these things, in advance, you won't be impulsive, and running after things that you shouldn't be running after. So when these things happen, keep your focus.
You know, kind of stay the course on what you know is true. So absolutely, I agree with you.
GLENN: Growing lawlessness is the sign of the last days. And we're seeing lawlessness, like I've never seen before.
Now, this has happened over and over again. Where societies have been lawless, and they collapse.
But lawlessness in the last days, it gives birth to the lawless one. Which is the Antichrist. Right?
BILL: Right. Exactly. That's exactly right. You know, a lot of people have thought, that the Antichrist have come to power. And he will create this lawless environment.
I believe a lawless environment gives birth to the lawless one. The final prediction of the Antichrist.
GLENN: To me, that -- that is -- makes sense.
We're -- you know, it was about 2000, oh, six. I was talking to Condoleezza Rice. And she used very specific language. She was on my show. And we were talking about, you know, what things look like now.
And, you know, what's coming our way. And she said, these things are birth pangs. Of the things to come.
And I thought, that was -- you know, rather unusual language for somebody to use.
Because it's very Scriptural.
BILL: Yeah. That's Biblical language for sure.
GLENN: Yeah, it is. And we are giving birth to something. I don't know if it's the -- you know, the Antichrist. Or the end times. Or just really, really bad times.
But there -- everything that we're seeing, these are like contractions and birth pangs. When things happen, you're like, ow. That hurt. And they're becoming faster and faster and closer and closer to one another.
We are giving birth to something.
BILL: Yeah. Well, in Hebrews, it's the birth pangs of the Messiah.
The Messiah is -- and his rule and reign, over the earth, that's what is -- that's what's being birthed. That's what's coming to fruition.
It's just in the process, the earth and everybody in it, has to go through these birth pangs.
Paul talks about how the earth is groaning and producing this travail and birth pangs. So that the sons of God will be revealed. That goes hand-in-glove with the messiah and his return. That's what's being birthed.
But just like in any birth, something that is wonderful. There's all this yuckiness, and pain and suffering.
Unfortunately, that pressure has to be there, to get those who are listening to the voice of the Lord, in the place that he wants them to be. And that is, not giving in to the lawlessness. Not giving in to the just crazy stuff, that society is pushing down our throats.
But to stay true, based on what Christians say.
So that's what's being birthed, as far as I'm concerned.
GLENN: Let me go back to the Ark of the Covenant. It seems like an Indiana Jones movie. It doesn't seem rule in some ways.
I know it is. Or I know it was.
But then it just kind of disappeared.
Nobody really knows what happened to it. People have been looking for it, forever.
And people are saying, it will be revealed. And some people believe it's under the Temple Mount.
I've stood, at the place where they say, right behind these stones, is where they think the holy of holies is.
Which is where they think the Ark of the Covenant is.
And it's a labyrinth of passageways and everything, underneath there. At least it used to be. But why -- why would it -- how could it possibly be still there, when, you know, the Muslims have been digging underneath the Temple Mount for a long time. And taking truckloads, of -- of dirt and antiquities out and just dumping them.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, how could it still be there?
You know, I don't know that I have the answer to that question. I will just say, my faith would say, if God wanted it to be there, it will still be there. He has a way of watching over things.
GLENN: Right.
But is it prophesied that it will be found and come back, or is this just something that some people think?
BILL: Well, the last time you see -- or you see a mention of the Ark of the Covenant. Is when Josiah tells the priest to take the Ark of the Covenant and put it in the house that Solomon had prepared for it. And, by the way, there are people who read into that. Well, the Ark of the Covenant was already in the temple. What is Josiah saying? Some people say, well, he was hiding it, because he knew the Babylonians were coming. And that's where some people think, well, it's hidden in somewhere around Jerusalem.
Most people close to the temple, are -- our rebuilt temple. Motivation. Think it's under the Temple Mount.
But, you know, it disappears from the record, is the point.
And the next time you see anything mentioned. It's in the Book of Revelation, actually.
After all this other stuff is over with.
All the bad stuff.
So, yeah. It is a big mystery.
I will tell you a quick story. Ninety-two.
I and another gentleman, along with an Israeli friend, we went to the office of Rabbi Yehuda Getz, who at that time was over all of the holy places in Jerusalem.
And to make a long story short, Rabbi Getz did not believe that the Ark of the Covenant was in Ethiopia. He did not believe it was there.
He felt very confident, he knew where the Ark of the Covenant was. And he did not tell us. But our Israeli friend, later told us, that in the early '80s, along with a lot of the men who were participants, in the relitigation of Jerusalem. '67. Actually, when these excavations begun, they were looking for the Ark of the Covenant. Because they believed that it was under the temple mount somewhere. I've even heard reports, that it was supposedly -- saw the place where it was kept. Now, I don't know that to be a fact.
So there are people who do believe it still exists. There are people that are in Jerusalem, who would love for that to be revealed. And I would suggest that if that were -- if you think the red of her will cause --
GLENN: Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. I mean, I can't imagine how that could be revealed, and the whole world not taking real significant note.
Whether you believe that the -- what's ever in it. Or that the remnants of the Ten Commandments. Or not.
It doesn't matter.
For the Ark of the Covenant to be revealed and come back.
That would say a lot, about Israel. About Jerusalem. About the times we live in. I mean, pretty much everything. Pretty much everything.
GLENN: Well, it still exists. And this is just my opinion. That's all it is, just an opinion.
I tend to believe that if it does exist, and it's going to be revealed.
Then it probably will coincide with the Messianic age, with the Messiah's return.
And I think that would probably be more likely. But that doesn't mean that there aren't people who would be very, very excited to be -- to have an opportunity. To find it, look for it. And if they could, bring it out.
And that would cause World War III, most likely.
GLENN: It probably would.
It's weird, Bill. When you're over there. You don't understand highway this little patch of land has caused so much turmoil really, in the world.
Why everybody seems to be -- you know, centered on that patch of land. Because it's not very big.
And it's almost like it's a pulse, you can feel it.
That Temple Mount. There's something about that area.
It's God's throne. And you can feel it.
It's amazing. It's amazing.
BILL: Exactly. Exactly. That, what you just said, is prophetic. Prophecy said, he will make Jerusalem burden themselves. And even more -- more so, the Temple Mount. Because that is where God's presence kissed the earth.
And the Ark of the Covenant was basically God's throne on earth.
So, yeah. It's a very contested piece of property, and it will be at the heart of conflict. Yes.
GLENN: Bill Cloud, thank you so much.
If you would like to follow him, you can follow him on his website at BillCloud.org. That's BillCloud.org.